What would a conversation with basketball's founding father's, Dr. James Naismith and Dr. Luther Gulick, be like? We know and we have it, a humerous, yet historically accurate exclusive interview with both.   By Mark Preston

Who's the most important person in the history of basketball? It's the sort of question of which great debates are made. You could say Bill Russell for his 11 NBA championships or Wilt Chamberlain for his amazing scoring. A valid argument could certainly be made for Michael Jordan, His Airness having changed the way the game is played and having brought the sport a global prominence it had never before known. There are even those who'd suggest Dennis Rodman, but that camp is pretty much composed of hair stylists and tattoo artists.

The truth is that the great game of basketball has known scores of magnificent players, coaches and innovators, each and every one of them singularly significant in the evolution and growth of the sport. But in terms of sheer importance, you'd be hard pressed to find any individual to top the tandem of Dr. James Naismith and Dr. Luther Gulick. Without them, we'd be without basketball, and any and all argument be moot. It was Naismith who invented the game in Gulick who prompted him to do so. Since that time, anyone and everyone who's had hoop dreams owes a debt of gratitude to these two men.

Gulick passed away in 1918; Naismith in 1939. But given their roles as the founding fathers of basketball, it is impossible not to wonder what these two post-up pioneers would think of their game today. After more than a century of revolution, would they still be proud parents? If we had the opportunity to sit down and chat with them now, how would that interview play out?

Maybe something like this...

Thank you both for taking the time to speak with us.
Naismith: It's a pleasure.
Gulick: Actually, it's more like a miracle.

I take it you don't do a lot of interviews.
Gulick: The press seems to have an unfortunate bias toward the living. It has really put a crimp in our demand as after-dinner speakers.

I see. Well, it's been 109 years since the game of basketball was invented. Can you take us back to the beginning and talk about how it all came about?
Naismith: I had come to Springfield, Mass., from my hometown in Almonte, Ontario, to study physical education at the International YMCA Training School, which today is Springfield College. I had graduated with a degree in theology from Presbyterian College in Montreal, but I'd always had a keen interest in sports, so I decided to study physical education as a graduate student. I was 31 years old at the time, and part of my graduate program involved teaching other students, instructing them in various physical fitness activities.
Gulick: I was the superintendent of physical education at the school at that time. And it should be noted that this was decades before the Village People ever came on the scene. It wasn't always fun to stay at the YMCA. In fact, during the winter months, it got downright boring. In the summer, we had baseball, in the fall, football. During the winter, we had calisthenics. And as anyone will attest, there are only so many squat thrusts you can reasonably ask of a class.

So you thought you needed a winter pastime to keep the student body interested and involved?
Gulick: Exactly. My exact challenge to my classes and to Dr. Naismith was to come up with "an indoor game that would be interesting, easy to learn, and easy to play in the winter by artificial light." I received a few suggestions from some members of my class, but only Dr. Naismith seriously took the challenge to heart.

What were some of the other suggestions?
Gulick: Oh, various things. Full-contact croquet; tag-team trapeze, freestyle lard sculpting. Nothing that anyone other than cable networks would be interested in.

Sounds like the students were a bit incorrigible.
Naismith: Well, that's how history has recorded them - my incorrigibles. But as I said at the time, "The trouble is not with the men, but with the system that we are using. The kind of work for this particular class should be of a recreative nature, something that would appeal to their play instincts." The attitude of the class was restless, certainly, but you try spending a Springfield winter up in a gymnasium, tumbling. It's the stuff of which revolutions are made.

So the situation called for a revolutionary idea?
Naismith: Exactly, I'd tried any number of things, even modifying existing games such as soccer and rugby to indoor conditions. But nothing really caught on. Just imagine, indoor soccer. It's nonsensical!

Well, actually... Oh, never mind. Continue please.
Naismith: My original idea was something of a synthesis of various exsisting games: football, lacrosse, ruby, soccer and a game I played in my youth in the lumber camps of Ontario, called, "Duck on a Rock." I considered using a football for one game, but found that a soccer ball provided much easier handling and dribbling, since the carrying of the ball in this game would be strictly prohibited. That seems to have changed somewhat now, I see. But I digress. Anyway, I asked the school janitor, old Pop Stebbins, for boxes, to use as goals for the game, and he instead came up with two half-bushel peach baskets.
Gulick: Peach-pit spitting! That was the other suggestion!

O.K. So, uh, back to you, Dr. Naismith. From the baskets, obviously, came the name "Basket Ball."
Naismith: Exactly. From there, I drew up a set of rules -- 13 to be exact -- in order to make for fair play. Those original rules have stood the test of time pretty well, I might add, except for the whole, "not running with the ball" thing. It strikes me that there are more steps taken during an average NBA game today than at a Sunday social dance.

And your students took to the game quickly?
Naismith: They were dubious at first, but adapted well. There were 18 in the class - three forwards, three centers and three backs on each team. I chose two of the center men to jump, then threw the ball between them. It was the start of the first basketball game and the end of trouble with that class.
Gulick: It was a brilliant concept and its popularity spread quickly. It was the answer to all the things I'd always stressed as important in physical education, an all-encompassing activity that forces participants to use both their minds and their bodies. I said it then and I'll say it again, "Dr. Naismith merits a place as one of the immortals in American Education."

I would imagine that you've both closely followed the evolution of the game during these hundred-odd years.
Naismith: Most certainly. One of the greatest perks about heaven is an amazing satellite system, even if it means more Dick Vitale than any mer mortal could possibly bear.
Gulick: The truth is, Dr. Naismith's game has grown beyond our wildest imagination. What began as a wintertime diversion has become a global success story. Anytime I stroll through our magnificent Hall of Fame and I often do - I'm overcome by the sheer number and variety of individuals from all over the world who've made our game their life.
Naismith: It's an honor for me to know that my simple game has meant so much to so many. The happiest moment of my life was in 1936, when I attended the Olympic Games in Berlin and saw the game of basketball being played for the first time in international Olympic competition. I had the opportunity to address the assembled players and coaches before the start of the game, and I must admit, my eyes were misty when I did.

It must thrill you both that basketball is still one of the hottest tickets in Olympic competition.
Gulick: Without question. It's a perfect Olympic sport. As I said, the original idea was to develop a sport that utilized fully both the mind and the body, that taught the ideals of sportsmanship. It is all these things that make up the Olympic ideal.

In effect, your dream evolved into the Dream Team.
Naismith: Into many. A game of one-on-one in a playground is a dream come true for me. To borrow a line from Shakespeare - whom, I might add, has become something of a Shaquille O'Neal fan - "the play's the thing." That's always what basketball has been about for me -the play.

Let's get back to that point in a minute, but I've got to ask Shakespeare and Shaq?
Naismith: Well, Shakespeare - or, as he prefers to call himself these days, "M.C. Willie," has become heavy into this rap music. Loves Shaq. Laker game nights, the only sounds emanating from M.C. Willie's are Shaq CDs and the voice of Chick Hearn.

Wow. It must be some scene in your community.
Naismith: You have no idea. Let's just say we've got a bigger celebrity row than The Forum and Madison Square Garden combined.

Anyway, back to your earlier statement; it's all about the play. Can you elaborate?
Naismith: Many years ago, I said, "Basketball is a game to be played, not coached." I still believe that. There aren't a lot of people who realize this about me, but I spent a few years coaching at the University of Kansas, without much success. Here I'm coaching a sport I invented and couldn't win. I'd just as soon help the other team if they were having fundamental difficulties. For me, the game was about exercise and good-natured competition. I just never saw winning as important.

So your favorite NBA team would be?
Naismith: The Clippers.

Makes sense.
Gulick: You need to understand that for Dr. Naismith and myself, the essence of basketball is bigger than the entire galaxy, which we see every day. For us, the thrill is that the game has held its own, against myriad challenges. It's survived competition from other sports, it's survived wars and depressions. It's survived Bill Laimbeer. It's survived because it remains essentially as Dr. Naismith developed it - a game of physical and mental skill and agility.
Naismith: Dr. Gulick and I take pride in the fact that basketball is a game that is a thrill to play and a thrill to watch for so many. Men and women; young and old. It's helped some to a better way of life, it's helped some find a way to a better education. You really don't get any of that from squat thrusts.

Mark Preston is a freelance writer from Shelton, Ct. He has written previously for a host of Basketball Hall of Fame publications, including the Enshrinement Program, Hall of Fame/NBA Game program and the Tip-Off Classic program.